How to argue with the devil

Have you ever had a conversation with the devil?  Apparently that’s a thing that can happen, according to the Scripture lessons we’ve read for this morning.  Maybe you haven’t argued with the actual devil, but have you ever felt like you did? 

In the Gospel lesson from Matthew, we learn that Satan knows Scripture.  When tempting Jesus to jump from the top of the Temple, Satan suggests this is a reasonable idea since “He will command his angels concerning you” and “on their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone,” which are both lines found in Psalm 91 (verses 11 and 12). 

Simply knowing Scripture is not the most important thing; it makes a huge difference in how the words of Scripture are interpreted.  Satan interprets Scripture in self-serving ways.  But what about us?  How do we interpret Scripture? 

Lutherans read the Bible and interpret Scripture through our understanding of Jesus, the living Word of God, and I could explain more about why we do that, but that’s a whole other sermon.  For today, though, I want to explore this question: how do we explain our understanding of Scripture to people who want to treat all the words of Scripture as equal to each other?  There are Christians who treat the Bible like a dictionary—open the book at any point, and every verse is equal in importance to every other. 

Now I am not someone who enjoys arguing, so it helps me to learn from other people who do enjoy it.  And John Fugelsang is giving me a lot to think about lately.  He is emphatically not a theologian, nor a priest or teacher.  He’s a comedian who wrote this book: Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds.  And it is funny but also practical.  So I want to read some sections from his book about how to talk with people who take the Bible literally or who interpret the Bible through a different lens. 

Fugelsang tells this story:

“The Bible is a source of guidance for millions, but not every passage is meant to be applied literally.  Many passages reflect the societal norms of their day or address specific cultural dynamics that might not directly apply to your century.

“And please understand that I sympathize deeply with the literalists.  As a child, I was raised to believe in both the Bible and science.  I remember desperately arguing with my second-grade teacher that snakes used to have the ability to talk, because that’s in the Bible, but they gradually lost the ability to talk, because that’s evolution.  The other kids just stared.  It made enormous sense to me at the time.

“…Literalist readings of Scripture have historically been used to justify slavery, segregation, and restrictions on rights, particularly for women, LGBTQ people, and religious minorities. 

“But please understand—nobody believes everything that is in the Bible.  A sizable chunk of this historic, wonderful, brutal book are in fact myths that nobody takes literally.  …The Bible has a lot of truth, which is not the same as a lot of facts.”[1] 

So Fugelsang lists things found in the Bible that nobody literally believes:

“The Bible clearly commands us to kill anyone who works more than six days of the week.  It bluntly forbids ever eating ham, or wearing clothing made of mixed materials.  It forbids divorce, but not polygamy.  It forbids playing football, but doesn’t forbid slavery.  It forbids gathering sticks on a Saturday, but doesn’t forbid genocide.  It forbids eating shrimp, but doesn’t forbid trading your ten-year-old child for a goat.”[2]

Fugelsang explains:

“The belief that every word of the Bible should be interpreted to the letter and applied directly to contemporary life is not the point of faith.  Imagine Jesus ending a parable by saying ‘And the moral of the story is that the Good Samaritan was one hundred percent a totally real guy, and I command you to believe that every part of that story really did happen. Amen.”[3]

“The order of creation in Genesis—light created before the sun, plants created before the sun, creation of humans before animals in one account, after animals in another—contradicts all established scientific understanding of the origin of the universe and development of life on earth.  Snakes lack vocal cords and the cognitive ability necessary for speech, and always have.  This presents a significant conflict with the natural history and biology of reptiles.”[4]

“…But if you’re Eve, sauntering through paradise, and serpents pops up to persuade you to disobey God and eat of the Tree of Knowledge, it’s reasonable to assume your first response might be ‘Holy [cow], a talking snake.’  Science has never made me doubt the existence of a loving God, but some Christians have.”[5]

Fugelsang points out that “the more right-wing the fundamentalism, the more any person of any religion will believe [the following things]: God decided women are second-class; sex is generally bad, especially when women or gay people enjoy it; violence is acceptable to God, if it’s my side doing it; punishment is prioritized over healing; perpetual victimhood can justify anything.”[6]

Fugelsang also surrounds himself with people of wisdom, and he shares quotes from where he has encountered wisdom.  He includes this quote from Pastor John Pavlovitz:

“The people who most stridently contend they believe in a literal application of the Bible have simply not read the majority of it.  They have been selectively armed with the verses that seem to reflect their prejudices, confirm their theology, ratify their politics, and echo the story they believe about God.  The moment you give them a verse or a section that confronts their worldview, you take the pressure off of yourself by having them argue with God and not you.”[7]

Fugelsang also consults with scholars who have studied the way some Christians use Scripture to angle for power.  Kristin Kobes Du Mez, author of Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation, said:

“Conservative evangelicals have tended to prioritize interpretations that justify exercising power over others—men’s power over women, and Christians’ power over society.  Many theologians argue that Jesus rejected this approach to power.  He emptied himself and refused to claim earthly power, which was very much within his reach.  He said the first must be last, and that to follow him meant to take up one’s cross, to sacrifice oneself for others.  These are hard teachings, however.  If you want to build a movement and claim power for yourself, these teachings will get in the way.”[8]

So what is there to be done?  Fugelsang wrote this book to give instructions about how to take back the Bible from fundamentalists, which is not to say that the goal is to change anyone’s mind (that may not be possible), but to insist that fundamentalists don’t have the final say in how the Bible is interpreted.  And he recommends appealing to people using just the words of Jesus.  Here are his suggestions:

“Engage gently.  Debate if need be.  Stay relaxed, don’t be intimidated, and try to frame your points around asking questions.  And do keep in mind:

1.      Focus on Jesus’s teachings—love, compassion, and social justice.

2.      Try to know the Bible just a bit—be prepared to calmly reference specific verses…

3.      Be ready to calmly challenge misinterpretations or selective readings of Scripture by using crazy concepts like context, historical understanding, and what Jesus said versus what he didn’t.

4.      Remind them that parables are stories—which are open to interpretation….

5.      Focus on core principles we all agree on, like love, compassion, justice, and reconciliation.  They’re kinda required for Christianity.  Get them to agree on that.

6.      Model respectful dialogue, even if you’re repelled by some opinions.  Eye contact, smiling, and warmth are always good.  Avoid, if you can, the personal attacks or dismissive language, even if they don’t.  You may get to model turning the other cheek.

7.      Don’t debate in a vacuum—try to have witnesses.  You’ll reach more people if you can show how an informed, civil person debates in public.  You might not get all the onlookers on your side, but you won’t give them reasons to hate you.

8.      Be open to listening, even if it’s crazy-talk.  They’ve been trained their entire lives by right-wing media to believe you don’t care about them or their beliefs, so don’t prove them right.  Identify those fleeting moments of agreement. They’ll respect you, even if they don’t like you very much.

9.      Get them—gently—to acknowledge your points.  They don’t have to agree with you (and they won’t), but ask them to confirm they at least understand the point you’re making.  It helps guarantee they won’t instantly forget your point.

10.  Remember to not give in to any hate they may throw at you.  If you’re going ot debate something as personal as the Bible, your job is to remember to be the calm, patient person who doesn’t hate back.  If you’re just there to antagonize, you’ll only make your fundamentalist more cranky and wrathful.  Some of these folks seriously enjoy being martyrs, and any hostility from you will give them license to act like one.

…You likely won’t change their minds, and that’s okay.  It’s not your job to deprogram a zealot.  This book is about taking Christianity back from the haters, not curing them.  …you may even give strength to bystanders.”[9]

Do you notice any themes in these suggestions?  I heard the word “calm” more than once.  And respect.  And gentle.  And staying focused on Jesus and his teachings. 

It isn’t easy to explain faith and Scripture interpretation, but it is possible.  You can also surround yourself with people who encourage you and—this is important—point you toward Jesus Christ.  Fugelsang writes this:

“Faith does not require literalism; many Christians find profound meaning in the Bible without taking every word as fact.  As author and theologian Keith Giles reminds us, ‘Many things are ‘Biblical,’ like genocide, patriarchy, slavery, polygamy. When I say these things are ‘Biblical,’ I mean that people have in the past—and even today—used the Bible to justify all of those things.  So, yes, those things are Biblical.  But none of those things are Christlike.  And that’s the point.  We’re called to follow Christ, not the Bible.  In fact, please understand this: the Bible does not tell us to follow the Bible.  The Bible tells us to follow Christ.”[10]

So when reading tough texts like what we’ve read today, be free to ask questions.  Lutherans love questions!  Remember that Jesus doesn’t use Scripture to benefit himself, and Satan can purposely misuse Scripture.  Talking snakes are not the point of the Genesis story.  How about this takeaway: there are no shortcuts to wisdom!  Fruit-based or otherwise.  And the Gospel is the good news that sets us free, so if the Gospel is sounding like bad news or if it’s not setting someone free, consider that it might not be the actual Gospel. 

And if you hear something here in worship that doesn’t make sense to you, please ask!  I LOVE to talk about the Bible and about faith in God.  I don’t know everything, and for some things there are no answers, but we can wonder together. 

Scripture is given to us as a gift; let’s keep opening it. Let’s keep seeking God here.  And let’s keep setting people free.  God is leading the way. 

Amen. 

Pastor Cheryl 

[1] Fugelsang, page 64.

[2] Fugelsang page 65.

[3] Fugelsang, page 66.

[4] Fugelsang, page 79.

[5] Fugelsang, page 79.

[6] Fugelsang, page 54-55.

[7] Fugelsang, page 75.

[8] Fugelsang, page 56.

[9] Fugelsang, page 61-62.

[10] Fugelsang, page 77.